tv Nancy Grace HLN July 29, 2009 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT
tonight, a beautiful, young massachusetts mom, eight months pregnant and only days away from delivering her fourth child, vanishes. her where abouts unknown to family and friends, but is found brutally murdered inside a bedroom closet. her child surgically cut from her womb. tonight, police on alert, not only for the infant, but the killer, presumably posing at the parents. >> a woman, about eight months pregnant, has been found dead inside a closet at her apartment in massachusetts.
police say her fetus was cut from her womb. investigators say the baby might have survived and would need immediate medical attention. >> i think that's horrible. >> an intense search outside of boston for a tiny baby brutally cut from her mother's womb. >> the tragedy has the family joining police and pleading for information. >> have a heart. just, i don't care if you just drop the kid off. >> we can also put the baby to rest with her -- >> and tonight, to boise, idaho and the desperate search for an 8-year-old boy.
what happened to robert manwill? >> robert's an 8-year-old little guy who needs our help. he's the main priority for not only the boise department, but dozens of investigators from all around the country. >> robert manwill's been missing now, according to police, he was last seen around 8:30 p.m. friday night. >> this investigation continues to go in many different directions. because of the very nature of police investigations, right now, we're not prepared to discuss the leads investigators are taking. >> information is only being released during scheduled press conferences. while they would not answer questions on camera, boise
police say they are following more than a hundred leads in this case and there is no evidence to indicate robert has left the area. that leaves his family continuing to reach out to the community. >> this is robert's bear that has always been close to his heart. and our family would love to reunite them together. please do what you can to help. >> good evening. i'm in for nancy grace tonight. a beautiful, young massachusetts mom murdered, her child cut from her womb. police on high alert for mom's killer and the infant girl she named sheila marie. >> police say darlene haynes was last seen thursday. her body was found in a bedroom closet, wrapped in blankets.
>> haynes was apparently dead a few days before her body was found. an autopsy shows she suffered head injuries. >> i think it was planned out. no one heard her cry. no one heard anything. i mean, someone took that baby. i mean, i just don't know who it could have been or why. >> she's so kindhearted though that she would let anybody in to her home. >> i seen a green ford come up and i guess from what i've heard, they pulled in the driveway. we couldn't really tell if it was a male or female driving the car. >> darlene haynes, eight months pregnant. her landlord found her body stuffed in the bedroom close et. >> family tragedies don't get much worse than this one. i want to go right to joe from the "boston herald."
what is the latest on this baby? >> it's a frantic search. time is of the essence. they have to find this baby. we're told it could lead to quick infections. the child needs care immediately. that's the focus of this investigation tonight. >> john, what are you hearing? tell us what exactly the place can do to exact a search to make it happen to find this baby. >> pat, everyone is looking and praying that this child is somehow alive and is given to authorities, but at the same time, there's so many unanswered questions of a young woman that obviously was taken advantage of in so many different ways and then someone committed this brutal act against her. >> mark, former nypd detective, what makes this particular search so horrific?
not just from the emotional standpoint, but what do you have to do? you've got to act quickly. >> a whole host of things. i'm sure the police at this point in time are trying to create a timeline. the last time she was seen by some neighbors and then go forward from there. in addition to that, it's a question of doing the search of the area. they're canvassing the entire area. who saw what. you saw the man say something about a green car pulling up. i'm sure the police are gathering all types of information and putting it together and creating an image. getting little bits of information and creating a picture to search with. >> with the clock ticking, go ahead. >> it's a terrible situation, clearly, but the thing is that the medical examiner will be able to determine how this child was removed.
whether it was done viciously or with a medical fashion. that will also put a clock on the child and how the child will survive going forward. >> doctor, you know, it was just established yesterday that the fetus was cut out. now the person who did this, hopefully, took the child to get some sort of treatment. but we, the public, are just learning this yesterday. that doesn't help, does it? >> well, not necessarily. the care of a c-section is really the care for the mother. taking a child out is not that complicated. remember, even cave men delivered babies. you simply cut and clamp the umbilical cord. remember, the survivor, even at four months, is somewhere around 50/50. further out, at eight months, the survival goes way up.
we have good reason to believe she may be out there. >> carl whitney, we are really honored to have you. you are the uncle of darlene haynes. i'm so sorry for the tragedy upon your family. what can you tell us? does the family have new clue what went wrong? >> at this point in time, no. nobody, darlene has talked to other grandmother about 7:30 thursday even and that was the last time anybody had heard from her. >> what did she seem like at the time, carl? was she happy? did she say anything of significance? >> no. she was talking about because she was visiting with her grandmother and her other two girls and she just hadn't been feeling well because of the heat and everything around here and the you know, being pregnant and
that's how long. she was just having trouble getting around. >> i can't even imagine what this must be like for your family. there was a report that she had, i believe, text someone that she was sharing wine coolers with a friend? >> i know nothing about that. as far as i know, darlene didn't partake of any type of drugs or do any kind of alcohol. >> but she could have been just socializing with someone who did. >> but herself, that wasn't something she, that i was aware of that she would be doing. >> i want to take a caller. tammy, from massachusetts. >> caller: my husband -- and her family. this isn't that far from where i live either. i just wanted to know since whoever did this is a monster, basically, what charges would they face because i know a lot of states don't consider the
fetus to be a human being when it's inside the mother, it's a fetus, but in effect, she was not like four months pregnant. she's eight months pregnant. that child could be alive right now. and if it dies, will that person be charged for murder or will they still consider it a fetus and they wouldn't get as much of a sentence? >> that's an excellent question. susan, is it a state by state decision? >> no only is it a state by state decision, but very fact specific. if the child came out and breathed air and was alive, then absolutely, it is a person and absolutely, the person who did this will be charged with two murder ones. >> penny douglas, let me ask you from your perspective, what do you do with a case like this from a defense attorney's point of view? >> if i'm a defense attorney and i represent the boyfriend, i would not allow him to talk to anyone because he will be the
first suspect, especially since there's a restraining order and he had a history of violence against this woman. >> that's an important thing. we're going to get into that and obviously, law enforcement looks directly at immediate family and friends. we're going to talk about roberto rodriguez. before that, let's take another call. it's amy in tennessee. >> caller: hi, thanks for taking my call. my thoughts go out to the family of this poor woman. is there any way that they would know if this woman was alive when the baby was taken or if she was murdered before? >> good question. it's a hard one to ask. we're go to the doctor for that. i expect that the examiners will know if it's something this person tried to do before the mother's death. explain it to us. >> there's basically a window of time where that baby can live
after the mother has died. it would normally be about a minute or so if the mother died completely. if it was something like a coma, the baby could have gone for hours in what is really a natural incubator. tonight, are you nancy's number one fan? send us an e-mail or ireport and tell us why. you could win a copy of nancy's new novel. plus, a chance to win a trip to new york city to meet nancy herself.
family joining with police in pleading for information. >> turn yourself in, go ahead, keep running. the law's going to catch up to you. that's how these -- okay. have a heart. just, i don't care if you just drop the kid off in a hospital. >> if the fetus isn't alive, you know, we'd like to know as well, so as we are laid to rest, we can also put the baby to rest with her. >> investigators say the baby might have survived and would need immediate medical attention to survive. haynes was dead a few days before her body was found. the autopsy shows she suffered head injuries. >> joe from the "boston herald." kind of recap for us how this all transpired. take us up to know. >> well, the landlord was told
that they were smell ago foul odor on monday at the apartment complex in woouser. we went and found darlene stuffed in a closet, wrapped in a comforter. she had been killed and was decomposing already. the medical examiner did an autopsy and found out that she was bashed in the head and her fetus cut out of her stomach. neighbors say they heard loud screaming thursday night. now, authorities are searching high and low, as quickly as they can, is this child alive? >> john, my understanding is that there isn't a blood trail. how can that be? >> you know, that's a good question, pat. but i do have a question for karl whitney and that is did the boyfriend, roberto, made a comment that she ran with the
wrong crowd and there's also reports he was supposed to be getting married, but it's unclear if he's the father and what did he mean by she ran with the wrong crowd. >> that's a good time to get to roberto rodriguez, who is not a suspect. he's an ex-boyfriend. the father of another child. she also has two other children and the baby, the newborn, for lack of a better term, i believe is also his. can you clear that up for us, karl? >> as far as i know, that mr. rodriguez is the father of baby. the baby in question and he is the father of the other daughter, christina. >> and then there are two other children in the custody of a grandmother or aunt? >> yeah, there's two other girls. five years old and three years
old, that are, that her grandmother has court ordered guardianship. >> now, let's just make sure we understand roberto, an ex-boyfriend, and pleads for that baby. he does have a restraining order gens him and he has a history, but is not considered a suspect. but karl, what did he mean when he said she ran with the wrong people. is there someone that you, the family, might be thinking of? >> at this point in time, no. darlene -- had -- occasionally like most young folks today, she'll get into situations. she wasn't able to, couldn't see
right away and eventually, she would understand what's going on and get away from it, but who she were friends with and hung around with, we don't really know. >> it would be fair to say, alan, that we are inclined to look at ex-boyfriends and husbands and ex-whatevers, but he has not been named a suspect, what would you advise him to do? >> it's certainly the obligation of law enforcement to check out everyone. certainly ex-boyfriended. but if i was defending this person, i would depend on the fact that there's no physical evidence, no witnesses. he has three other children with this woman. >> at least one. >> in which there's been no prior history of violence concerning that child and it doesn't make sense to assume he murdered this woman and took the
child. this appears to be a crime where someone who wanted that baby. >> and susan moss, you know, again, we can't indict this man. we don't know. what are the other options here? >> there may be other options, but probably are fantasy. he's got crimes down the list of my arm. he's the number one suspect. >> because of the restraining order, i looked down and saw a green ford come up and i guess from what i've heard, they pulled in the driveway, but it was headed down and couldn't tell if it was a male or female driving the car.
the unborn baby. >> i looked down, i saw a green ford pull up. i guess from what i heard, they pulled in the driveway, but the visor was halfway down, so we couldn't tell if it was a male or female driving the car. >> darlene was dropping off their daughter, christina. the landlord found the body friday. >> my heart goes out to the family and to the unborn child who was left without a mother. >> again a reminder, roberto rodriguez is not a suspect. we tried to reach him today and did not hear back. patricia saunders, clinical psychologist, it's mostly women who perpetrate these crimes, is it not? >> in terms of baby snatching, yeah, but 1/3 of pregnant women
killed are killed by their partners. so those crimes are actually more prevalent than the baby snatching, mommy killers. >> killing your spouse on an ex is one thing, but it takes a whole different psychology to snatch a fetus. >> yeah, if it's a baby snatching, it's really rare. these are women who are obsessed with being pregnant. they have little or no conscious. it's just the baby and nothing else. >> karl whitney, did you know roberto? >> no, i did not. >> so you have no idea of his personality. >> no. i've never really -- i've seen him in passing a couple f times, but never met him.
michelle, a woman desperate for a baby, had kidnapped and killed teresa and taken her baby. >> after a shot rang out inside the home, a newborn was sound asleep inside the home and andrews' lifeless body was unearthed from the shallow grave. friends, family and her husband testified. they believed that 39-year-old lisa montgomery was pregnant and
delivered a baby. her family was shocked when police arrived to arrest her. it's reveals montgomery not only kidnapped the baby, but cut the baby from the womb of bobby joe stinnett. >> she was found friday, shot to death with her ab do men cut open. her fetus was missing. >> she had told friends she was pregnant, but never produced evidence of a baby. that is until after her disappearance, when she drove to the hospital with a dead fetus she claimed was hers. doctors determined she had not given birth to the child. >> her landlord found her body mutilated in the closet. >> as you can see, it's mostly women. patricia, just try to explain
for us, the psychology. obviously, women who so desperately need a child it takes them to a level of psicose is to get one? >> they have a delusion about getting a baby to keep their man or be alive themselves. but some of these women wiare n psychotic. lying comes easily to them and killing another human being doesn't mean much to them. >> so susan, penny and alan, i would guess attorneys representing would say, oh, my client was insane. who wants to answer that one? >> i will. obviously, if there's evidence against him -- >> i'm talking about anyone who could carve a fetus from a womb. is that necessarily mean you're insane? >> well, certainly if you're
going to carve something out of a human being body is insane. certainly someone intends to go somebody's house with a knife sharp enough to open up someone's body and remove a fetus, it would be difficult to claim because they know what thaerp doing. >> you have to look at the facts of this case. she was wrapped up in a blanket. not left on the floor, in a field. shot in the head and put in a garage. she was carefully wrapped in a blanket and put in a closet. who takes the time to do that? i don't know, perhaps the come cops will take the time to see if it's somebody who knew her. perhaps there might be some fingers pointed to that ex-boyfriend.
>> not yet though. bill, according to the authorities, her body was quote, so mangled, so decomposed, they would not identify her. >> clearly not someone that cared about the body when it was done, but the reality is that the police are keeping everything close to the vest, which tells me they're on to some significant leads in the investigation. the ex-boyfriend is a tremendous source of information. definitely not a suspect at this point in time, but he still lived in the area, he was familiar with her comings and going. familiar with other people in the area. who ever got into that room with her, knew her, or was friendly with her. it wasn't a break-in. >> someone she was comfortable with.
>> trauma to the head means she was knocked out before the baby was removed. i'm sure they're very, very close to solving this case as we speak. >> ron claus, thanks for joining us. you deal with missing children all the time. this is particularly heinous. >> indeed it is, pat. every medical facility, clinic and hospital has been notified about this and anybody who comes in with a baby under suspicious circumstances is immediately going to be looked at extremely closely. i tend to believe that this could be, this woman had a history of making very bad decisions. the possibility of her letting somebody into the home that she didn't know is a very real possibility, too. i also believe that the neighbor who heard pounding in the house
at 2:00 on sunday morning and then sort of forgot about it, is probably holding a key piece of evidence because if there are surveillance tapes in the apartment house or around the neighborhood around that time, or if anybody was out and saw something that didn't seem suspicious then, that might hold the key to this case. >> i agree. i think they've got their eye on somebody, but don't want to mess up the case. doctor, if there's any chance this baby is alive and well, and we're all praying that she is, what kind of jeopardy is she in if she's not getting medical care? >> the biggest issue is breathing. at that age, the body is making this fluid in the lungs that allows it to expand. if not enough of it is there, the baby won't be able to breathe on their own. there's a good chance this baby
is completely viable and doing well and thriving. >> if anyone recognizes a friend who suddenly shows up with a baby, be suspicious and call authorities. we want to take another call. >> caller: yes, i have two kids, so this is very upsetting to me. i want to know how the boyfriend cannot be a suspect with the record he has? >> statistics show that is isn't necessary men who do this. alan, people want to jump on the ex-boyfriend, but to me, the guy looks visibly upset. i know you can't make a decision about guilt or innocence based on just that, but i realize people jump on him, but it isn't
fair. alan -- >> does not mean you have the ability to kill someone and cut a fetus out of their body and it's very, very unfair to people to make that assumption. >> susan, do you disagree? >> i think the more investigation is going to happen, the more facts are going to come to light. i'm guessing their watching everybody who they think is a person of interest right now. >> john, he was the -- excuse me. not the suspect. the ex-boyfriend is getting married today or tomorrow? is that true? >> that is the word that a marriage license was taken out, but the real other tragedy here, this poor women had the mind supposedly of a 12 or 13-year-old. she had three children, could only take care of one. the landlord said that was a struggle because of diapers left all over. it sounded as if everyone just
stood by as this poor woman was taken advantage of and then paid for it with her life. >> she had mental health issues, korkt one, hung with the wrong crowd. you may not realize your own home can pose the greatest danger to your children. here are tips to protect your children from poison. never, ever leave medication on the table. countertops or other areas within a child's reach. store all medicines in a locked cabinet. remember that simple household projects can be poison. keep safety latches on all cabinets. have your home's paint tested for led and always keep a number for poison control near your telephone. for more information, go to kidshealth.org.
robert is still missing, but we are hopeful for his safe return. >> fbi agents have joined the search for a missing idaho boy. authorities say he vanished shortly after leaving home. >> as of this morning, we've invested over 5,000 man hours of located robert. >> authorities changed their approach, sending crews to back alleys and yards. even telling volunteers to look in trash cans. >> search efforts have turned up nothing. the investigation continues today. valuable information is coming from these interviews. a timeline for robert's where abouts is coming together. >> he say it's not like his son to just disappear. >> if somebody's seen him, please, please call the police. we want our little boy back.
>> another heartbreaker, dealing with a child. i want to go to mike with kbci. now, gets complicated because robert, i understand was visiting his mother who does not have custody? >> reporter: that is correct. here's what we've learned today and again, bear with us because there have been a lot more questions than answers in this case. here are the ones i can give you. there has been some criminal history on the part of melissa jenkins. that is robert's mother. here's what we found in court documents today. in october of 2008, she was facing a felony charge of injury to a child. she initially pled that down in february of this year to a misdemeanor of charge of injury to a child for fracturing her youngest child's skull. just a toddler. as for the boyfriend, there's also criminal history with him.
we want to make clear that authorities here in boise have not made any connection between any past criminal behavior by robert's mother or boyfriend in anything that's happening today with this case. >> and ironically, it's tragic, but also ironic, the father has has also suffered a tragedy, because a wife he had a long time ago has stabbed one of their children. is that true? >> yes, he was a soldier in louisiana and at the time, they were in their early 20s and ended up pleaded guilty.
>> it's incredible. patricia, we have no evidence that any of these three people have anything to do with this child missing, but there is a culture of violence in this man's life. how does that impact such a young, innocent child? >> when kids witness violence as a way of problem solving, then they're going to be drawn to adults who are violent. >> barbara from north carolina, good evening. question? >> caller: thank you for taking my call. i was calling to ask what parent would let an 8-year-old child out at 9:30 at night. i mean, it's pitch-black at nighttime, so why was this child leaving the house by himself to go somewhere? >> it's a great question, but
marc klaas, we don't know the facts. what do we look for in a case like this? >> just a couple of weeks ago, we were dealing with a child in utah, i believe it was, who was out at 9:30 at night and it was determined through several sources that it was still light enough at that time for the child to be out. i don't think we should draw any conclusions that it was pitch-black in boise, idaho, which is in a northern latitude. the problem that exists now is that in order for law enforcement to solve this case, they have to eliminate certain individuals and this is such a filthy family. there's so much crime involved in this family, not being allowed to be with little kids. being married to somebody that stabbed your son. there's so much crime that it's
going to be very difficult for law enforcement to eliminate these particular individuals so they can move on. >> it's important to remember, this astounded me, although i remember i did stories of pockets of areas where there's an inordinate number of sex offenders. i'd be looking at those guys, too. >> and they have. the cops have told us that each and every sex offender in the area has been spoken to and the police are doing everything they can to investigate them. making them answer the tough questions, because they're going to leave no stone unturned to
find this boy. >> patty, this is history, not fair? >> it's not fair, but the thing is, it's most of the time someone in the family. that's the person they look at, but they need to get rid of these people as suspects and investigate them so that they can move on. and the people who are, have their -- the sex addicts and people in the area, once they are convicted of that and they have the register as a sex offender, they can go into all their homes and search all of their homes and i hope they've already done that, especially with 100 of them in this area. >> what do we have to fear for this child's safety besides the obvious? >> he may be in hiding. someone with a family of so much history of abuse, this child a probably dealing with severe
anxiety and fear. tonight, we're on the search for nancy's number one fan. get your cameras fabulous nancy grace's number one fan. you can win a copy of "the length victim" and a chance to win a trip to new york to meet nancy herself. cnn.com/nan cnn.com/nancygrace to enter for a chance to win. >> i want to thank you so much for all of your calls an your e-mails about my book "eleventh victim" coming out on august 11th. you are the first to see it. of course, after lucy pictured here who grabbed it first, it is about a prosecutor who tries her best to give up criminal law and start a new life but when her friends are murdered one by one, the nypd hones in on her. it took me years to write this book. i started when i first left
felony prosecution and missed it so much. since then i wrote another book and published it, launched this show with my producer dean, got married, got pregnant, gave birth, nearly died. didn't. and finished the book. i hope you like it. part of my proceeds go to a charity wesley glen who takes care of the mentally handicapped that need a loving home. you can find this book on our website.
we are in day five in the search of young robert manwill, he is still missing but we remain hopeful. the family members are cooperating fully with investigators as we continue to pour over the leads and put together a timeline for young robert. >> mike, reporter for cnn affiliate kbci, we just heard him say that the family is cooperating in this case. here's what i want to know. usually we get the bare minimum from law enforcement but we are not getting who saw the child on the playground, who called it into authorities. we don't know, do we? >> very few details are being
released right now and we asked if the family members have been asked to take a polygraph test. they said until the case is concluded, until we find robert, specifics and details of this very active, ongoing priority investigation cannot be released but here's what i can tell you. somebody must believe that the child is still in the boise area because on friday they're asking 1,000 volunteers to come out to this location to search for this young 8-year-old. >> bill, former nypd detective, isn't it odd they can't tell us who called authorities? >> yeah. i'm a little concerned that they don't have a time line after five days. >> right. >> clearly, that should be the first thing, first order of an investigative process. now, they may indeed be keeping things close to the vest and not wanting to disseminate information, may have some following up leads right now but the reality is that you have to go back to the beginning. after five days, if you haven't
solved it or not close to solves it, you have to go back to the beginning epa re-establish the ground work. create a timeline more solidly. >> publicly, we need your help, don't forget. let's stop to remember marine sergeant josh yeah frazier. always put out himself, volunteered for a third tour in iraq to lead a group of young marines and served in afghanistan and was awarded the purple heart. iraq campaign medal and national defense service medal. remembered for a bright smile and loved spider-man. his favorite book, "catcher in the rye." leaves behind parents rick and sheila and brother aaron. josh yeah frazier, an american hero. nancy, thank you for letting me sit in. until then, have a wonderful, wonderful night.
next on "issues," dramatic developments in the michael jackson manslaughter investigation. scrutiny of the timeline the day he died. waiting 30 minutes before calling 911 f. you add up the 911 call, the time it took paramedics to get there and worked on michael jackson at the home, it adds up to one hour and 17 minutes. and he had no pulse and he wasn't breathing during most of that according to paramedics so when was he dead? that's the big question. we're going to explore tonight on "issues." we're also going to take a look at the casey anthony case heating up again after being pushed off the headlines. it is back. cindy deposed by state prosecutors, did she turn into a deposition diva again? we'll try to answer that question coming up on "issues."